virus: How many levels are there ?

Chitren Nursinghdass (
Fri, 30 May 1997 20:52:01 +0200

>> Hmmm, two meme sets can appear contradictory if you don't have the hypotheses
>> that can link them into a coherent meta-system.
>> Is the knowledge of such a meme a > level 3 meme ?
>I've been trying to say that such a knowledge would be level 4... but I
>haven't read the book so it's possible that it could still be level 3.

>Ummm... I don't see how this is related to the universe, mathematics and
>free will above. But you are claiming that all knowledge is linked to
>our bodies (brains) And this is not new either... haven't people been
>talking about immorality for mellania?

I didn't mean all knowledge is linked to our bodies. I was saying that
all knowledge is linked. It's a vast network. The mind-body thingie was
just an example.

I view knowledge as a kind of structured information system.
Structured information in a low-entropy pool ...

In fact, energy and information are linked, they aren't lsot, just transformed.
Reminds me of the current information paradox with black holes :

What happens to a book you throw into a black hole ?
The latter "evanesce" after some time. So where did the structured information
go after evanescence ? Is it lost or recycled ? Hawking is on this with Penrose.

>I wasn't talking about the math (although I thought there were only
>five?) Having now looked it up, I was talking about deductive agruments.
>1) law of non-contradiction NOT(p and NOTp)
> no proposition can be both true and false

Wait a minute. This depends on your SYSTEM !
Look at it this way : if there's time and space in your system, then
you can have 1. p at some location AND NOT p at another location
OR 2. p at some time AND NOT p at some other time (you'll say
it's not simultaneous, but hey even time is relative/subjective).

>2) law of excluded middle (p or NOTp)
> everything is either A or non-A
> or every proposition is either true or false
>3) Law of identity (if p then p)
> if any prop. is true it is true

So this is about formal system, with no spatio-temporal or even higher
The meme-machine is more flexible than this, don't you think ?

>I see now why I forgot one... both 1 and 2 are elements of the same
>thing... the identity just has to go both ways. it is 1 and 2 that
>level 3 transends
>> >Ummm... I'll probably have something to say about your view in another
>> >week when I finish "The way of Zen" by Allen Watts... till then, you can
>> >go read my "Ripples on the pond of Life" message.
>> Extremely interesting stuff to which I replied as well.

To the list I hope (don't tell me it hasn't been delivered, you know that
thingie about a perfect void being itself a force, etc...). It sounds
like what I've seen in buddhist metaphysics. Only I didn't read this
stuff to reach these conclusions.

No ?

Damn !